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Star Wars: The Force Awakens - SPOILERS THREAD

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - SPOILERS THREAD

Postby Kalsh » Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:43 am

I really liked the movie. And while there are a number of plot points that lead to many questions, my biggest question is - where were Constable Zuvio and Sarco Plank?

I had expected Zuvio to be on Jakku, but the only time that I noticed any character with his saucer-like hat was in Rey's Force vision. Maybe I spotted Sarco in the background of Maz's watering hole. But maybe not.

I believe the toy snow speeder that includes the Snowtrooper is based on the vehicle in the background when Rey and Finn are running into the building after splitting up from Han and Chewie. This movie really didn't provide memorable new vehicles beyond Rey and Kylo's personal transports.

As to specifics of the movie itself, I loved the freighter scene. From Rey, Finn, Han, and Chewie's perspective, it was just disaster piled on top of disaster. And when you get right down to it, it was basically all Han's fault (except for the assist by Rey resetting the wrong fuses). Just a great example of what being a scoundrel gets you. Loved it.

Did anyone clearly make out what is said at the end of Rey's Force vision? "This is your first step" is where I'm at right now. Since I've already seen the movie three times, I'm not likely to be viewing it again until it hits the cheap theaters.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - SPOILERS THREAD

Postby Fritzkrieg » Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:01 am

Overall, I found the movie enjoyable. It didn't keep my 5 year old sons interest through the entirety of the movie, about the 2 3rds thru the movie he started to ask if it was almost over.
A few scenes really tugged on the old heartstrings. Han's death, could have been held off for another movie, to make sure the characters developed a stronger bond.
I did not see anyone mention it yet, but the scene where the monsters where chasing Han and Chewy thru the freighter were a nod to the Indiana Jones, scene with the giant stone bolder.
I definitely think Rey is a Skywalker, the headstone belonging to Luke's Wife and Rey's mother. Mara Jade?
Of the new Characters introduced I found Rey and Poe the most likable.

....Just read an article about Daniel Craig's stormtrooper Cameo, apparently he was the week minded stormtrooper Rey Jedi mind tricks into releasing her.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - SPOILERS THREAD

Postby jediknutt » Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:36 am

I may have imagined it, but I could swear Han's cold weather coat changed color. Han even does a double take when he picks it back up. A nod to the brown/blue debate. I loved all the nods to the OT, but it may have been overdone to a certain extent. I had said early on that based on the trailers, it looked like a remake of A New Hope. Rey is Luke, a new Death Star, etc. I would much rather have seen Han go out guns blazing, or sacrificing himself for the good of the group than the way he did. Ford has said for years he felt like Han should go out that way. To see him go the way he did seemed anticlimactic at best. Like the way Captain Kirk dies in Generations. Kirk should have been on the bridge, in command, trying to cheat death one last time. I can't wait to see how they use Luke in the Yoda/training role. I also missed the Daniel Craig and Ewan McGregor cameos. I'll definitely try harder next time to catch their voices.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - SPOILERS THREAD

Postby jediknutt » Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:31 pm

Also, they made a big point of C3PO having a red arm with no explanation for it. Then at the very end, he has a gold arm with no explanation for it.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - SPOILERS THREAD

Postby dutchg » Sun Dec 20, 2015 1:35 pm

All in all a good, fun movie. I liked it...but it wasn't perfect:

Here are my major critiques:

1. The freighter scene monsters were horrible! They reminded me of the subway creature from Men in Black II. Totally not right for a Star Wars movie. Could have been so much cooler and unique.

2. As mentioned before, it's all so very convenient. Finn defecting when he did. Rey getting caught in the action. The Falcon being on Jakku. Han flying a salvage freighter that just happens to find the Falcon floating in space. Max having Luke's saber in the basement.

3. Speaking of Finn, is this defection of troops a major thing with the First Order? Seems unlikely...

4. The Falcon takes way too much of a beating to still be flyable. Getting blasted repeatedly, crashing into buildings, dragging across sand dunes, crashing through trees, skidding along icy outcroppings, having the cockpit gnawed by stupid tentacle blobs with teeth.

5. The whole thing was a little too much like episode IV with the running through the base, the trench run by X-wings, the impending destruction of the rebel base by a super laser.

6. As mentioned before, Rey using mind tricks without even knowing that was even possible.

7. Snoke was a disappointment. I was distracted by the CGI. The big image looming over Ren was too much like the Emperor/Vader scenes. Maybe that was the idea...

8. It seemed like a lot of it probably got cut out in editing. Regarding the toys, where were the snowtroopers (only one scene just standing there)? Where was the Jakku speeder that Finn was supposed to use? Why are the toys of Kylo Ren's shuttle mostly white while the movie version was black? Where was the trailer scene of one hand giving another hand the lightsaber?

JJ did well, but dropped the ball a bit.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - SPOILERS THREAD

Postby Jodo » Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:12 pm

The Jakku Hot Rod speeder was seen in the background at Jakku, passing from right to left if I remember right. The lack of snowtrooper action was pretty disappointing though. I thought they would see at least some action...
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - SPOILERS THREAD

Postby kevin1126 » Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:34 pm

Watched the movie a second time this morning. I will say this. I enjoyed it a lot more the second time around. I still have some issues with it, but a lot of the nit-pick things I felt before are not so bad. Overall I am happy with the movie. It is a great movie.

My main issues I have with the film are
1. Rey being able to use the force so easily. She does it twice: escaping and when she's fighting Kylo Ren. I still wish and think it would have been so much better to have Luke show up when Rey is fighting Kylo Ren, possibly saving her from certain death at the hands of Ren. It really bothers me how easy she beat him after he utters the word force and she seems to become an experienced user of a lightsaber.
2. Snoke is still horrible, Phasma could have been featured more. And the creatures?? Why not Gundarks? I feel like they could have choose a better creature.

Other than that I'm better with some of the "coincidences" in the movie. The Falcon on Jakku doesn't bother me as much, and Han and Chewie finding it not so much either. And Maz having Luke's saber... I'm ok with. Han even asks her where she got it and she replies thats an answer for another time. So I feel like we will eventually get an answer lets just hope its a good one.

During the the seen where Rey touches Luke's lightsaber... there's so much going on there... But I definitely heard Yoda's voice and Alec Guinness's Obi-Wan voice. There's been some speculation as I've read it was Ewan McGregor or James Arnold Taylor. But it clearly sounds like Alec Guinness to me.

I'm very intrigued by Max von Syndow's character in the beginning. When you watch it for a second time and you know that Kylo Ren is Han and Leia's son, the dialogue takes on a new meaning. Because it's clear that von Syndow's character is eluding to Kylo Ren's past. I'm curious as to how he fits into all this.

All in all, when the Phantom Menace came out, the more I watched it the more I began to dislike it. I hoping that with The Force Awakens the opposite is true, and that the more I watch it the more I will like it.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - SPOILERS THREAD

Postby jediknutt » Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:50 pm

When Obi Wan says "Rey", it is Alec Guiness. They took part of him saying "Afraid" and made it into Rey. The other lines are Ewan McGregor. James Arnold Taylor recorded it originally, but they changed it. Frank Oz also does Yoda's voice in that scene.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - SPOILERS THREAD

Postby Raww » Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:31 pm

6/10 in my book, after two viewings.

+Had a non-stop grin on my face for the first 30m or so.
+Loved Rey & her story line. I was worried Daisy's accent was too much from the trailers, but didn't bother me in the movie.
+Mostly loved Finn (some of his lines & deliveries felt too much from our galaxy, not theirs)
+Loved the reveal of the Falcon, and of Han & Chewie (I really thought some stormtroopers were going to get gassed).
+Loved some of the callbacks to the previous movies (training remote & holo game on the Falcon, Han asking if there is a garbage smasher)

-Was not as good the second viewing (the viewing excitement was gone; note: this could've been because I saw it twice in one day, the latter time being at night).

-Wait, am I watching Episode VII or IV? (super weapon, trench run, we know where there base is & they know where ours is, countdown to firing, blow up the villain's base at the last second, etc.) If you're going to recycle plot elements, please do it in a creative way that makes sense, not just for the sake of "fan service". Why couldn't have Starkiller Base been hinted at over episodes 7 & 8 (teased that the FO is working on something devastating & the Rebels, er, Resistance has to find out what it is) and then finally revealed in 9 as the ultimate threat?

-Han & Leia's relationship. My biggest fear leading up to this movie was that with them throwing out the established history of the Expanded Universe storylines, they wouldn't have something as good/strong as a replacement. And my fears turned to be spot on. Why did Han & Leia need to be broken up? Why couldn't have Han & Chewie just been out on a mission for the Rebellion, er, Resistance (possibly under cover) when they picked up the Falcon's signal and find Rey & Finn? Having Han return to smuggling (at his age) wasn't believable. And unnecessary. I hated that they weren't together (and without a good explanation).

-Captain Phasma. Really expected her to be the new Boba Fett of the trilogy, but she could've been left out and it wouldn't have mattered at all. Why wasn't she the one that faced off against Finn on Maz's planet? She could've been kicking Finn's butt when Chewie takes a shot at her. She goes down, but we see that she was only wounded, and then could come back in 8.

-General Hux & the Smuggler Leaders. Why were most of the leaders so young? It seemed like the network executives of the CW were in charge of casting.

-The Resistance. Why are they called that? Aren't they part of the New Republic? Calling them the Resistance makes them seem like they are underground inside the First Order, trying to bring them down. But they seemed less-equipped than the Rebel Alliance.

-Supreme Leader Snoke. Apart from the very awkward name, when they first showed him I honestly thought we had our first Star War giant. My wife even thought he looked like he came out of "Jack the Giant Slayer". Hopefully he's look will make more sense once we see him "in person", but right now it doesn't seem necessary to have him be a CGI character (in fact, it makes him look bad).

-Han's Death. Why I understand that it was "necessary" for Ben's progression to the dark side, I feel like it should've been saved for episode 8 (but that was probably a Harrison Ford mandate: "I'll come back for one movie, but you have to kill me off!"). We needed more time to get to know and understand the relationship between Han, Leia & their son (and a couple of lines of dialogue didn't cut it).

-The Map to Luke. What was the point of this? It felt so underwhelming to have Rey & Chewie fly straight there and find Luke, and then just have him stare at Rey. In my opinion, the ending would've been much stronger if:
*Han & Ben have their face off on the bridge. Ben looks like he's about to come with Han, but as the light goes out, he ignites his blade and moves to strike his father down. At that point, Chewie takes his shot and wounds Ben; Han is able to escape.
*Ben, Rey, & Finn have their face-off, but now it's Han & Chewie that rescue them.
*The movie then ends with Han, Chewie & Rey leaving in the Falcon to go find Luke (much like Lando & Chewie at the end of ESB).
*Episode 8 would then start with the Trio on the last step of the trail to find Luke (but have some situation they have to get out of). They finally make it to Luke, and we get a Han & Luke reunion. Han introduces Rey to Luke, who then acknowledges her as (???).
*Later, Han makes another attempt to save his son, but Snoke pushes Ben to kill him.

Finally, the question of who is Rey related to? Going into the movie I was betting that she and Kylo Ren would be twins (a la Jacen & Jaina Solo), but now I'm pretty sure she is Luke's daughter (based on his reaction to her showing up). However, my brother has a theory that she is really Han & Leia's daughter, but she was born after Han had left, so he never knew about her (hence him not recognizing her, but Leia's embrace of her). Of course, I'll hate this if it ends up being true, so I really hope he's wrong.

In the end, I can live with the recycled plot elements (even though it seems lazy on the writers' part), but the ruining of Han & Leia's relationship (and Han's rushed death) is the thing that kills it for me.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - SPOILERS THREAD

Postby YakPurge » Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:12 am

while it sux to have to read through some of the "eu" well not really "eu" but reference manuals to understand the backstory. but I guess with a 30 year gap between to OT to the ST you can't fit everything in the movie. So that being said I thumbed through the visual reference book while at Walmart, and it does answer some questions that weren't really touched on in the movie. Now this is just off the top of my head in what I remember so I'd suggest looking through/buying it.

while Kylo's saber design is ancient the reason for the energy blade itself looking different is because his Kaiburr crystal is cracked.

the new republic has disbanded the military, which has made it virtually impossible for the resistance to get a hold of capital ships, which is why the 'rebels' looked to be worse of then they were during ANH, and they only have fighters. Side note this could also be why we only see them flying around in Xwings.

the planet we see being destroyed is not Coruscant, and while most fans probably picked up on that because of the system that the planet was in wasn't Coruscants, according to the guide Mon Mothma set up a system of a 'rotating government' where different planets host/temporarily the government so that all planets will feel equal. (seems like that'd take FOREVER for every planet to get their turn, but I guess think of it like the Olympics)

now I'm not sure if I'm remembering right or if some of it was in the movie too, but since the new republic doesn't have a standing army the republic somehow helps/funds the resistance under the table. which is why they are the resistance and not technically the republic.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - SPOILERS THREAD

Postby YakPurge » Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:51 am

I loved this movie. I literally cried when Han died even tho I saw clips of it online and even rey meeting luke, I don't mind being spoiled :twisted:

for being a 2+ hour movie I don't know why everything seemed rushed.

I don't think the monsters were needed, to me just running/hiding from the pirates would've been enough.

I'd hoped that somehow Rey had discovered the Falcon maybe on some crash landed republic ship, and she'd basically been living out of it, you could still use the excuse that she was afraid of leaving Jakku cuz her family was coming for her and that being why she never left in Falcon. I think that'd be better then it just sitting there. Possibly Han thinking that Falcon was destroyed on whatever ship it was on when it crashed on Jakku being the reason he never got it back.

I agree with most that the whole super weapon thing has been over done, maybe it could've been similar to DS or Starkiller base and it being a movable planetoid which the FO can launch overwhelming attacks from, kinda like a Super Star Destroyer.

while I HATED seeing Han die I understand that's what needed to happen to bring Kylo to the darkside, so that Snoke could complete his training.

the movie left sooo many more unanswered questions. I know i'll need to see again to sort it all out. just Reys vision alone needs to be seen again, how much of it was the past and how much was the future.

are the Knights of Ren all Force users or just Kylo himself.

Rey is left on Jakku the girl at most was 10 years old. assuming to keep her safe she's left on Jakku after Kylo betrays the jedi how old would that have made kylo when he betrays the jedi. there doesn't look to be that much of a difference in age between them maybe 5 to 10 years. so maybe kylo is 18 when he turns.

rey has to be a Skywalker while she does display a knack for piloting and mechanics like Han I totally see Anakin in her.

I'm assuming she's had training since birth in the ways of the jedi, and that there are memories that have been purposely taken/hidden from her through the force. that's the only way I can except that she's able to use the force during her escape and her fight with kylo, certain things start to come back to her, maybe not specific memories but those abilities are already there its just a matter of remembering how to use them. just think how strong Anakin, Luke, Leia would be if they'd been trained since birth, now if rey has been then she should be very strong even if she doesn't really remember it.

I have no doubt, in my mind, that luke is rey's father. the look on his face seeing her, that wasn't the look of someone meeting a stranger. that was the look of someone being torn between seeing someone that they've missed for so long, and not being sure that she should have come or what her being there means.

for EP 8 I don't think it'll get acknowledged that luke is her father right away, I think he'll possibly push her away in an effort to protect her, but in the end realizing it must be done and confessing he's her father.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - SPOILERS THREAD

Postby Darth Kikinou » Wed Dec 23, 2015 3:26 am

As an action figure aficionado I have to point something out - Rey was wearing the same outfit the entire movie (except at the end for her trip to see Luke.) That means there are no figures to clamor for, we have the one and only we will ever need (for ep 7.) Same with Finn, he's in stormtrooper gear or in Poe's jacket. You'd think they'd need a shower and a change of clothes in between some of those intense scenes! Maybe a meal and a nap, too.

The more I think about this movie the less I like it. I was enthralled the first time, loved every moment before the freighter meet-up and those ridiculous monsters and useless pirates. Just too much happens too fast, there's no break (see above), nothing iconic about any of it. Even the Han dying scene is poor. Rushed, for no reason.

Also, think about the classic dramatic scenes in the series - Qui-Gon Jinn dies at the hands of Darth Maul - what do you remember? The drama, the pain, the awesome action, and most of all the setting. The timed force fields, the platforms, etc. Then you have "the reveal" in ESB in that amazing cloud city structure. Very memorable walls and decors and platforms, really slow pacing, terrific dialog and music. Same with ROTJ emperor-luke-vader scene, all super memorable. But what do we get for Han's death? Nothing. A long narrow dark platform, a few cheesy words, and everybody else as spectators. No drama, no action. This would have been the opportunity for Kylo Ren to tell about his experience with Luke and his draw to Vader and then allude to Snoke. It was garbage. Hated it.

Then there's Snoke. The silly name aside, is this the villain from the harry potter movies? Who is this guy? The only explanation that will somewhat placate me is if he's Darth Plagueis who had gone into hiding when Sidious was in power. Then he re-appeared after Sidious died and somehow got the remnants of the empire to accept him as their ruler, out of nowhere. His scars and deformities could then be explained as a product of his getting his butt kicked by Sidious. But even that is silly.

Next, they were doing so well going back to real sets and real actors and everything but why why why was the trader guy (falcon's owner) CGI? Why??? A plain ole human or just some guy with a dumb mask or cheap makeup would have been much, much better. And of course the monsters on the freighter... ugh. Maz should have been human too, why was it necessary to make her a CGI thing? You surround her with all these neat new monsters and characters, all of which we'll be demanding figures for over the next few decades, and you make this main person CGI?

And then of course there's the whole repetition of the plot from ANH, except not nearly as well done. The super weapon is ridiculous. When it fires the entire surface of the planet should vaporize, not just produce a neat color in the atmosphere. Drawing energy from the sun? What sorts of distances are we talking about here? How small is this solar system? And this thing can fire into interstellar space to reach its target? And people on the surface of the weapon planet can see the explosions of said victim planets? Whaaaaaaa????


All that said, gotta say I loved the new good guy characters and the actors that played them - Poe, Rey, Finn, and BB-8 - all phenomenal. The humor between them is great also, loved it.

The bad guys, on the other hand, not so much. Kylo Ren is merely a petulant child, a wannabe of his grandfather. Hux is way too young and I can't take him seriously, he's trying too hard to be evil but he comes off as ridiculous. All Captain Phasma does is walk around looking cool a couple of times and then lower the shields for the rebels. Very nice of her to not put up a fight, either. Why wasn't it Phasma who took on Finn with that light saber repeler? And who was that guy, a former friend in the first order? He calls Finn a traitor. Phasma would be better placed to say that. Or at least they should have introduced us to said friend before or during the raid on the village.

And the music wasn't awesome like it was the first two trilogies. Just background noise.

Sigh. I need to see it a few more times. hahaha.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - SPOILERS THREAD

Postby JawaKing » Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:48 am

I loved it. Not disappointed at all. It was very much the same feel (and flaws) as "A New Hope." I caught more things the second viewing. Sure, there are some editing and script issues, and a lot of unanswered questions, but so does the original film. And I'm sure it all ties into "a certain point of view." There are some things that I thought could have been more developed, especially the Han/Leia story line, for one. I was kind of missing familiar alien species, like rodians, ithorians, or something from the past. I could dissect every little detail, but it is just a movie, and overall it was very OT Star Wars and a great time.
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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - SPOILERS THREAD

Postby Darth Vlad's Clone » Thu Dec 24, 2015 4:05 pm

Jodo wrote:I definitely want to see it again for sure, but I want to wait until things die down just a bit, and the memories aren't as fresh as just a few days. :p

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens - SPOILERS THREAD

Postby jediknutt » Fri Dec 25, 2015 1:24 am

I'm sure there are a ton of deleted scenes. I got the Visual Dictionary today, and it shows a pic of Snowtroopers inside the Falcon and Rey sitting in the snowspeeder. Although that second pic looks like just a posed, on-set pic.

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