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Rogue One Review (Spoilers)

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Re: Rogue One Review (Spoilers)

Postby YAK_Chewie » Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:42 am

I've seen the film 4 times now. And really, the more I see it, the better it gets. I haven't felt this positive about any of the films since.. I dunno? I guess ANH and ESB?

How I think these rank in order now...

1 - ANH
2 - ESB
3 - Rogue One
4 - ROTJ
5 - TFA
6 - ROTS
7 - AOTC
8 - TPM

My real only complaints are the two "fan service" parts that didn't need to be done... Evazan/Ponda Baba really shouldn't have happened; at the least don't have them turn around and stare at the screen. It was overkill, but not as bad as the Special Edition adding in Jabba and Fett to ANH. Also the 3PO/R2 stuff... I am fine with them being in the movie, but they should have shown them boarding a ship or at the end with Leia.

CGI Tarkin and Leia are spectacular. The more I see them, the more convincing it is. And the Death Star; they really made it menacing here and it truly felt more natural as a WMD than the Starkiller base.

It's going to be hard to make a better Star Wars movie nowadays than what we just got with Rogue One. Appreciate this folks, this was truly something special.

:wink:
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Re: Rogue One Review (Spoilers)

Postby Imaculata » Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:50 am

StooperZero wrote:All about $$$, rake in $ at theaters and sell as much merch/toys as quickly as possible before people figure out it sucks. I had no clue there was a 3rd JP movie until this past October.


The funny thing is that the third movie is almost a better movie than the second one, simply for the fact that they added left over scenes from the book, such as the aviary and the lagoon. I have no idea why they didn't just stick to the book when making the second movie. There was no reason to remove main characters from the story, and then also add new characters. The only real good thing about The Lost World is the scene with the trucks, which is the only scene they literally lifted from the book. Everything else was ignored. Why? Spielberg is a good director, so this still baffles me today. It could have been so good, and they definitely had the budget for it.The book had some amazing action packed scenes, a good plot, and way more interesting characters than the first book did. It was painful to see what they had done to the story of The Lost World.

YAK_Chewie wrote:CGI Tarkin and Leia are spectacular. The more I see them, the more convincing it is. And the Death Star; they really made it menacing here and it truly felt more natural as a WMD than the Starkiller base.


CGI Tarkin bothered me a lot. There was something with the way his mouth moved that was very uncanny valley. It distracted so much from all the scenes he was in, because Cushing is a pretty notable actor, and hard to fake. Leia didn't bother me quite as much, since we only get to see her very briefly. I still think a close up of both characters was an overestimation of the quality of the effects, and I don't think it will age well.

I liked the way they portrayed the impact of the Death Star on the planet. There may have been some Fury Road influences there, but it looked good and scary. What bothered me, was how out of place the music was during every scene where the Death Star fires. You'd think the music would embody a sense of dread or urgency, but it was something completely jarring. I don't often notice the music, unless it is really good, or really bad. I highly suspect the composer had to rush the soundtrack, and that the editing was rushed as well.

There were several scenes where a shot did not cut where it should. I could notice odd pauses in between shots, or a few extra frames that should have been cut. It came across as a bit sloppy on occasion.
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Re: Rogue One Review (Spoilers)

Postby Lance Quazar » Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:02 pm

Imaculata wrote:

You are again making excuses for the scene. But try to look at it as a screenwriter. If you understand 'what makes Vader work', then you don't place him in that position to begin with.



Wow. Keeping a character inside a rigidly defined comfort zone and having him act in only one way all the time is literally the OPPOSITE of good screenwriting.

Finding ways to challenge a character (and challenge the audience's perceptions of said character) is the essence of drama.

Vader was pushed in that scene. That's the point. We're seeing a different side of him than we're used to. Because the drama of the moment demands it. It's GOOD screenwriting to find conflict that forces a character to behave in a different way.

Fortunately, the actual screenwriters of Rogue One realized this and did so brilliantly.
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Re: Rogue One Review (Spoilers)

Postby GrandMoffHux14 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:11 pm

Lance Quazar wrote:
Imaculata wrote:

You are again making excuses for the scene. But try to look at it as a screenwriter. If you understand 'what makes Vader work', then you don't place him in that position to begin with.



Wow. Keeping a character inside a rigidly defined comfort zone and having him act in only one way all the time is literally the OPPOSITE of good screenwriting.

Finding ways to challenge a character (and challenge the audience's perceptions of said character) is the essence of drama.

Vader was pushed in that scene. That's the point. We're seeing a different side of him than we're used to. Because the drama of the moment demands it. It's GOOD screenwriting to find conflict that forces a character to behave in a different way.

Fortunately, the actual screenwriters of Rogue One realized this and did so brilliantly.

Now might be a good time to agree to disagree? But I agree with everything you said.
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Re: Rogue One Review (Spoilers)

Postby Lance Quazar » Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:15 pm

YAK_Chewie wrote:I've seen the film 4 times now. And really, the more I see it, the better it gets. I haven't felt this positive about any of the films since.. I dunno? I guess ANH and ESB?

How I think these rank in order now...

1 - ANH
2 - ESB
3 - Rogue One
4 - ROTJ
5 - TFA
6 - ROTS
7 - AOTC
8 - TPM

My real only complaints are the two "fan service" parts that didn't need to be done... Evazan/Ponda Baba really shouldn't have happened; at the least don't have them turn around and stare at the screen. It was overkill, but not as bad as the Special Edition adding in Jabba and Fett to ANH. Also the 3PO/R2 stuff... I am fine with them being in the movie, but they should have shown them boarding a ship or at the end with Leia.

CGI Tarkin and Leia are spectacular. The more I see them, the more convincing it is. And the Death Star; they really made it menacing here and it truly felt more natural as a WMD than the Starkiller base.

It's going to be hard to make a better Star Wars movie nowadays than what we just got with Rogue One. Appreciate this folks, this was truly something special.

:wink:



The Ponda Boba moment definitely should have been cut. It is distracting and pretty lame. The 3PO/R2 scene definitely had to happen somewhere, but I'll admit that its placement is odd. It raises too many questions about what the droids are doing there. Is the Tantive docked somewhere at Yavin? Why? Doesn't really make much sense. I do think 3PO needed a line, just having a walk-on wouldn't have been as much fun or as significant. But I'm hard pressed to think of a better place for it.

I think it's great, too. but I can't quite rate it higher than anything in the OT. The OT is still the beating heart of the franchise and arguably always will be. While ROTJ definitely has some big flaws, it still concludes the classic story in high style, giving a very dramatic and satisfying conclusion to the story of Luke and Vader.

But I also agree that I can't imagine another SW movie being this good in the near future. But, given how much fun this was, I'm definitely looking forward to more spinoffs provided the filmmakers are given this much freedom to play.
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Re: Rogue One Review (Spoilers)

Postby Darth Vlad's Clone » Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:57 pm

This probably deserves its own separate thread, but I wonder if there could be any "anthology" movies made from the Rogue One characters (obviously prequels, tough Felicity Jones had a sequel option in her contract it sounds like). I think most of the characters went full arc in R1 like Jyn (it's her story), Bodhi and Cassian and Kaytoo. I'd love to see more of the Guardians of the Whills and how Chirrut and Baze came to be who they were. But I don't think there'd be enough story to drive a movie. Maybe Saw? It'd be nice to see the Two-Tubes again, but again, we know what happens to Saw in the end.

I'm not too thrilled about a Han Solo stand-alone. I guess it's because it's 1) Harrison's role and 2) his story has completed its arc, too. We know about his dubious past through references in the movies. That's good enough for me to know he was heartless until he met a feisty princess and found a cause he could believe in.

What else could be a good stand-alone?
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Re: Rogue One Review (Spoilers)

Postby GrandMoffHux14 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:26 pm

Darth Vlad's Clone wrote:This probably deserves its own separate thread, but I wonder if there could be any "anthology" movies made from the Rogue One characters (obviously prequels, tough Felicity Jones had a sequel option in her contract it sounds like). I think most of the characters went full arc in R1 like Jyn (it's her story), Bodhi and Cassian and Kaytoo. I'd love to see more of the Guardians of the Whills and how Chirrut and Baze came to be who they were. But I don't think there'd be enough story to drive a movie. Maybe Saw? It'd be nice to see the Two-Tubes again, but again, we know what happens to Saw in the end.

I'm not too thrilled about a Han Solo stand-alone. I guess it's because it's 1) Harrison's role and 2) his story has completed its arc, too. We know about his dubious past through references in the movies. That's good enough for me to know he was heartless until he met a feisty princess and found a cause he could believe in.

What else could be a good stand-alone?

I think a Jaxxon standalone is needed. :lol:
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Re: Rogue One Review (Spoilers)

Postby Lance Quazar » Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:10 pm

Darth Vlad's Clone wrote:
I'm not too thrilled about a Han Solo stand-alone. I guess it's because it's 1) Harrison's role and 2) his story has completed its arc, too. We know about his dubious past through references in the movies. That's good enough for me to know he was heartless until he met a feisty princess and found a cause he could believe in.



You really nailed the problem with a Han Solo standalone.

As much as I was skeptical about the concept behind "Rogue One" because the story itself wasn't essential, they made the story essential by telling the story of this particular group of characters but also how the rebel alliance itself underwent a fundamental change as a result of it. So while the "plot" aspects of actually getting the Death Star plans aren't themselves particularly engaging, the narrative weight was (rightly) placed elsewhere.

But with Han....there's nothing to do. He already had a fundamental character arc in Star Wars. That was a transformative experience, changing him from the callous mercenary into someone who cared about other people and a cause greater than himself.

So telling a prequel is a dramatic dead end. Unless they give Han another arc from scoundrel to hero, which would only then make his later journey redundant.

One could chart his journey from idealist into cynic, but what would be the fun in that? That would be a grim and unpleasant movie and not a story really worth telling.

This is why I worry a Han Solo movie will be a pointless and inert enterprise.
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Re: Rogue One Review (Spoilers)

Postby Darth Vlad's Clone » Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:24 am

GrandMoffHux14 wrote:I think a Jaxxon standalone is needed. :lol:


You might be a teen, but you are a well versed teen. *respect*

Darth Vlad's Clone wrote:I'd love to see more of the Guardians of the Whills [and how Chirrut and Baze came to be who they were].


Maybe take out Chirrut and Baze and just make a Guardians of the Whills movie (yeah, I can hear the comparisons to GotGalaxy now).

And back OT, someone posted a picture from (I believe) the Visual Guide with the scene of Chirrut with a bunch of downed Stormtroopers on Jedhi. I don't have the book yet, so I can't say which page it is, but there are some easter eggs on it. On the soles of the Stromtroopers boots are black dots where peg holes would go if they were figures. I wonder if it's easy to spot in the movie (if it's in it) or if it'll be quick. But nice nod to action figure fans.
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Re: Rogue One Review (Spoilers)

Postby Jodo » Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:16 pm

After RO, I'm looking forward to the anthology films more than the episodes. I hope (so much) that they feature Han saving Chewie, but I have a feeling it will be more about the independent orphan who is more like Jack Sparrow than anything.
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Re: Rogue One Review (Spoilers)

Postby YAK_Chewie » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:35 am

They already screwed up in my opinion on the Han Solo movie by casting the wrong actor for the part.

:wink:
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Re: Rogue One Review (Spoilers)

Postby Imaculata » Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:05 am

YAK_Chewie wrote:They already screwed up in my opinion on the Han Solo movie by casting the wrong actor for the part.
:wink:


I'll judge it when I see it.

Personally I don't think spin-off films are a good idea, because as pointed out, Han's story arc is already complete. But who knows, they might surprise us. And maybe the new actor is really charismatic and good for the part.
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Re: Rogue One Review (Spoilers)

Postby Lance Quazar » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:29 am

YAK_Chewie wrote:They already screwed up in my opinion on the Han Solo movie by casting the wrong actor for the part.

:wink:


Who would you have preferred?

Having only seen Alden Ehrenreich in "Hail Caesar", I gotta say, I think he's an excellent choice.
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Re: Rogue One Review (Spoilers)

Postby WOOOF » Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:48 am

I'd prefer a Boba Fett movie...and I can hear the groans from here.
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Re: Rogue One Review (Spoilers)

Postby Darth Kikinou » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:14 am

The more I see it, 3.5 times now (I helped myself to the second half in a deserted theater on a weekday last week, after having seen Passengers, great movie btw), the more I like it as well. I'm also sour on the Evazan scene and miffed about the droid's placement, but compared to TFA it is a masterpiece. Another thing that sort of bothers me every time is Chimrut smacking the stormtroopers with his stick, Why would that hurt them and even knock them out? It's just a light clank against their armor! Can you imagine how great he would have been as a Jedi Knight with lightsaber in the prequels?! Still, pretty cool.

The more I see TFA, the more I think about it, the more I feel it is actually the worst one, even worse than TPM which has many redeeming moments (Darth Maul...). I'm very surprised y'all are so down on the prequels as to even rank TFA above them! Outrageous!! :-) May I remind you: Phasma (MIA, pointless, weak), the rathtars (ridiculous!), and the absolutely unforgivable death planet's interstellar projectile visible from planets, and just basically the total plot rip-off of ANH without the charm or creativity or profundity! Maz is dumb, she's smacked down by Finn after trying to be all Yoda'esque. Kylo Ren is laughable. Rey becoming so adept with lightsaber after never having touched one is ridiculous. Not to mention non-force sensitive Finn. Just the whole part on Maz's planet, ugh. And last but not least, the worst of it all, Snoke. Snoke!! ugh. It's watchable, I like it because it's SW, but c'mon, the prequels are better!

Rank:
1) ANH
2) TESB
3) ROTJ
4) Rogue One
5) AOTC - take out all the Anakin / Padme dialogue and it's amazing!
6) TPM - take out Jar Jar's antics and the insufferable kid and you have an outstanding movie
7) ROTS - placement not indicative of being bad, just the others are better.
8) TFA

I even like the Clone Wars better than TFA (micro then miniseries). No grade for Rebels as I've not watched it.

I am crininging a little bit at the prospect of the Young Han Solo movie. Like Young Indiana Jones? Has the potential to be stupid! heh
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