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The Last Jedi (Spoiler Discussion)

Discussion about anything related to the post-Lucas movie releases.

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john1618
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Re: The Last Jedi (Spoiler Discussion)

Postby john1618 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:11 pm

I said from the beginning of I felt they disrespected the original characters and films I was out. They walked all over the character of Luke Skywalker. Han Solo was used as a plot device. I know I will see the next film but I will,do so out of obligation to see it end. I consider these new films fan fiction and not good fan fiction. The more I think about last jedi the madder I get. They hired television directors and they got films that feel like television shows.
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Re: The Last Jedi (Spoiler Discussion)

Postby jorsupersid » Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:44 pm

john1618 wrote: They hired television directors and they got films that feel like television shows.


Glad I'm not the only one that can see that.
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Re: The Last Jedi (Spoiler Discussion)

Postby Jodo » Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:49 pm

I still haven't seen it...And I still have no desire to even plan doing so. :lol: :|
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Re: The Last Jedi (Spoiler Discussion)

Postby StooperZero » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:32 pm

:lol:

i read all this and I'm still going this coming week.

Seriously , a lot of what I've read about what happens is very very close to my initial expectations of it.



After I see it , I'll post what I really think .
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Re: The Last Jedi (Spoiler Discussion)

Postby jorsupersid » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:46 pm

StooperZero wrote::lol:

i read all this and I'm still going this coming week.

Seriously , a lot of what I've read about what happens is very very close to my initial expectations of it.

After I see it , I'll post what I really think .



Seriously... Just don't have any expectations. Just try and turn your brain off. If it starts to feel jarring, then you'll see you are past of age of 6 and all the jokes become on you.
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Re: The Last Jedi (Spoiler Discussion)

Postby jorsupersid » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:55 pm

Jodo wrote:I still haven't seen it...And I still have no desire to even plan doing so. :lol: :|


I would only suggest it to someone that "LIKES" SW not "LOVES" SW... Otherwise it will irritate you.

The best viewing is prob for non theatrical, cuz you can sit at home and take breaks. TLJ didn't have any BAM big screen moments... Well maybe one when SNOKE'S ship is wounded... They stylized that more then the AOTC "depth charges"
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Re: The Last Jedi (Spoiler Discussion)

Postby TradeFederationSympathy » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:50 pm

I left the theater satisfied, a feeling I did NOT have following The Force Awakens.

I liked the development of Kylo and I still liked Rey. She’s really the best actor in the movies. Hux is atrocious! Finn is also rubbish.

The worst part of the movie was the Casino scene. It just didn’t feel like Star Wars.

I loved it when Kylo offered to start over with Rey. I was genuinely hoping she would take him up on it and start a galaxy with no good or bad Jedi’s, just neutral Jedi’s. It would have been very original.

Overall, a decent movie.
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Re: The Last Jedi (Spoiler Discussion)

Postby UKHistory » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:10 pm

Watched it twice. Liked it less the second time. There was a tv episode and battle star galactica vibe that I did not like.

Like the design of the bombers. Agree that with no gravity bombs won’t drop.

Great to see Luke. I have always been a Han fan but seeing Luke leave the human plane was just as sad to. Star Wars was and should be the further adventures of Luke Skywalker.

I like Rey and think she is a good character. Worthy of Star Wars. Kylo interesting too.

Rose is good.

Snoke we hardly knew you. How did he rise to power? How did the first order come to be? Cut in half which was a cool surprise but odd.

Phasma. Totally underutilized a superb actress to wear cylonesque stormtrooper outfit. Needed her to be used better

How about Maz? Resistance on death’s door and she just gives a name. Lupita won an Oscar. What a silly cameo.

And while ships can move in light speed I can’t see audio transmissions or more getting across the galaxy in real time. Doesn’t work for me but I am an 8 track kinda guy.

Canto bight-great concept to me. Gambling establishments go hand in hand with star wRs. From the very first Sunday comics.

Weak plot to get them there

Hux is way too young to be running the military. Not nearly as sshRp in this movie. Character went downhill

Laura Dern is a wonderful actress. She did a good job. But how anticlimactic is it for her to die?? And she looked like she belonged at the casino not a war room.

This group of movies is weak on aliens. Poor designs with little to no nods to existing species.

Ackbar dies? Awful way to go. Didn’t like that. Leia space walked without a suit. Don’t like it.

Right now movies have brought back our heroes to die save Leia and Carrie Fisher, God bless her, has passed. Just a shame.

Rise of the first order and Luke’s failing takes away the glory of the original star wArs.

Last Jedi more serious but Force Awakens was happier. Even with Han dying cant see the end for that reason.

Rogue One is by far the best of these three. Perhaps because the characters were all new to us we were open to them more. Although I wish someone would have lived. Maybe because it wS about the rebellion era which to me is Star Wars.

I like parts but not the whole.

Phantom menace, while not a good story, was overall more positive because it was a film we waited to see for so long. And it ushered in a new era of films that potentially could have been good.

The best part to me aside from seeing Luke at all was the little boy at the end. Echoing Camelot, see the play or the Richard Harris movie. That little bit of hope was the best part.

In fact I think the hope in that young would be jedi’s eyes would have been a great way to end the saga. A episode 9 doesn’t need to be made.
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Re: The Last Jedi (Spoiler Discussion)

Postby Darth Kikinou » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:40 pm

*** BIG SPOILERS ***

Convoluted mess! That's my first impression. Some of the same ridiculousness from episode vii. Plot holes everywhere. Enjoyable nonetheless though.

Leia... survives the vacuum of space. okay then. I just about gave up on the movie right then and there. I think that would have been a great death for her.

BB-8 was fun but wow he exceeds even R2-D2 in terms of resourcefulness. Too bad we didn't see him have some kind of duel with the black droid hah.

"Snoke" was a punk. Sidious would have destroyed him so easily. I was hoping they'd somehow reveal that Snoke WAS Sidious but nope, we still don't know where Snoke came from or what. And I despise that name, "Snoke". Makes him sound like some kind of joke, like a gnome or something. Props for making Kylo Ren lose the mask though.

The Praetorian guards were too good, there's no way any non-force wielder should be able to hang with a force wielder like that. And the look just doesn't work, wish they'd just kept the ep vi look. That battle didn't grip me at all, just kind of a silly dance.

Phasma is still a punk. Maz is still ridiculous. Hux is still too over the top. Lacks the scary dignity of a Tarkin. Yoda is a troll.

Good line - Kylo: "the supreme leader is dead" - Hux: "long live the surpreme leader". Just recently I watched "Robin Hood "(Russell Crowe, great movie btw) and that line "the king is dead. long live the king" is in there, very cool.

The remote Luke was silly. If Jedi were capable of that we should have seen it by now. The flicking off dust gesture did make me laugh though.

Okay I guess I'll watch it again ugh.
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Re: The Last Jedi (Spoiler Discussion)

Postby Utinniii » Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:27 am

TLJ Review
6/10
I love SW and I go into the film with as little expectations as possible. They are fun kid’s movies and were a huge impact on my childhood. Disney, EU, it’s all (mostly) good.

I was happy to enter this spoiler free which was good as I enjoyed the twists more. Unfortunately, personal circumstances ruined my mood going in. I will see it again and hopefully I will enjoy it more.

This is the first movie I don’t want to rush back into and see again. I don’t see myself watching it more than a couple of times and when I do it will be because I’m watching all 3 movies. I can watch TFA just for fun. I also didn’t see any environments where I’d want to make a diorama of. Perhaps a SD interior just so I have a place to display my FO Troopers.

It had some good moments and some really funny parts. It also had a lot of (to me) not SW moments and nearly everyone was underutilized.

When I saw the ESB scroll at the beginning, I was thrown out of the story. Fortunately, John Williams brought me back a few seconds later. This was a trend for me, I’d detach from the movie for a moment and then something brought me back. This happened to me more than any other SW movie (not including Ep II-III or the SWHS but including the Ewok movies).
I didn’t really feel like there was a story, more like a series of action sequences layered with motifs.

Poe was funny, but not SW funny. His humor was contemporary and will date the movie. He had one of the more useful story arcs and showed growth. He went from being a fighter to a leader. His exchange with Hux took me out of the movie, despite being funny.

I liked Rose. She was real to me. In a mostly cynical movie, she had the most heart. I didn’t care for her final speech though (but loved them moments leading up to it.)
Finn was good but didn’t really do much (different from TFA) until the end.

Carrie was heartbreaking. I need to come to terms with this being her last movie. They did her “death” really well. I believed they took her out that way. It would have been a good moment for Ren’s character development if she had died there. I’ve heard some people say she was “Mary Poppins” there, but that wasn’t what I saw. We’ve seen that moment in countless movies where a character is drowning in an ocean and then starts to swim towards the light. This was fantasy so the Science involved doesn’t really matter. It was still a cliché though.

Chewie and C-3P0 were useless. Anyone could have done their parts and it wouldn’t have been any less interesting.

BB8 was a total Mary Sue, and while the drunk putting coins in him was funny, the machine gun function later on was totally dumb and unrealistic. BBH8 seemed to exist only as a foil. Headless-Chicken walker pilot? Ruined the moment. BB8 says the line, "I've got a bad feeling about this", so the movie actually had it.

Captain Phasma? Could have been anyone really. She was just there to finish off Fin’s story arc, and they really made a continuity error with her “cool” second entrance of the room she was already in. This error of doing something “cinematic” despite the illogic of it happens a lot in this movie (and new movies in general). The bit about seeing her eye was also a cool moment that doesn’t improve the greater story.

The Porgs were adorable. I don’t see them as an extension of “the Vegan agenda” but rather the punchline of a joke. Since ESB, SW has been about merchandizing so I won’t begrudge them about that. I’d like to apologize to anyone who felt I spoiled the dinner scene with my Chewie diorama. I didn’t know he would actually eat a Porg and wouldn’t have posted it before the movie came out.

Hux was a cardboard prop.

Snoke wasn’t explained, but that doesn’t bother me in the slightest. It is a big galaxy.

I would have done Luke differently, but I didn’t hate how he was portrayed. Was it just me, or did it look like something (shadows) was moving towards him from the sun, just before it went binary?

Yoda was OK, but didn’t look like Yoda.
John Williams was good but uninspired. Nothing new and spectacular. It looked like he shared credit on it in the end titles. I hope he does the last chapter, but won’t be too disappointed if he doesn’t.

Laura Dern should have been replaced with Ackbar. We were invested his character. She was nobody. Also, how could Holdo lightspeed through every FO Ship? One I can believe, but all of them? This was the Star Killer ray breaking up to kill multiple planets all over again.

I don’t care for Adam Driver, although he did Kylo well. I like the conflictedness of his character. The shirtless joke also took me out of the movie (again, funny but not my SW).

Rey didn’t really do much. Her jump into the dark cave was a huge disappointment. Luke killed himself whereas she looked into a mirror.

I was looking forward to the Casino scene the most. Alien bars/hangouts are the things I love most about SW. Great things happen there. Pivotal things. Nothing happened this time except action.

I liked the force wielding stable boy in the end though.

R2 had one important task but was otherwise useless in the film. That was disappointing since R2 has the most heart from the remaining characters. Or rather, he should. He felt more like a astromech droid than R2 D2.

With regards to Grecian Formula for Men Luke and Phat Yoda. My take of psychic projections is they reveal your true self, not your physical self. The face I see in the mirror sometimes surprises me. It isn't like my minds-eye perception of myself.

Yoda was old and dying and Luke was broken so their physical bodies looked worse than their unfettered souls.

I also like that they planted the seed of the submerged Xwing but didn't use it!


I hope a second viewing changes my perspective but I suspect that this will always be (for me) a lesser SW movie.

PS: https://www.cnet.com/news/what-happe...body-in-space/
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Re: The Last Jedi (Spoiler Discussion)

Postby YAK_Chewie » Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:56 am

This movie felt more like trying to cash in while pushing an agenda than trying to tell a good story... Rogue One felt like trying to tell a good story and felt like there was so much more passion and caring from the director... and true respect for the franchise.

:wink:
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Re: The Last Jedi (Spoiler Discussion)

Postby jorsupersid » Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:06 am

Well it all comes down to bb-8 at-st, Leia poppins, and Harry potter commercial endings.

These movies have always had an audience for children... but not level of mediocracy Disney panders to. Say what you want about ewoks and gungans but they had reasons for the plot... Not nun frogs or "your mama jokes".

The director even emphasized his reasons to kill every org SW character left... And is now lauded for doing so.

SW is not for adults now with vested interest in storytelling or cinematic standards. Today I was thinking how similar it is to say TRANSFORMERS 2
With its way past broke amp every level up... Lowest common denominator... All or nothing "experience".
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Re: The Last Jedi (Spoiler Discussion)

Postby Joosk » Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:44 pm

Didn't really care for the movie and mostly blame that on the prequels and here is the reason why.
1. The prequels setup this ridiculous idea of a chosen one (Being of the skywalker family). If there hadn't been this notion of a chosen one and crap we wouldn't be questioning whos Rey's parents aren't hoping for a lineage and it would make more sense.
2. The sith rule of two: No where in the OT does it even mention a rule of two it is implicated in novels and the prequels. If there was no rule of two we wouldn't be waiting for a secret Sith master like Snoke blah blah blah.
3. The Jedi dogma: No where in the OT does it mention any type of rules for the jedi (no relationships attachments etc) When I first watched the OT and every time after I never got a sense of the jedi being a religion or dogmatic stigma. It was warriors who used a magical power to overcome things.
Which would make more sense for new films saying anyone could be a jedi if they had an affinity with the force.

Now this film seemed very rushed and no real plot.
1. Luke really did nothing: Boohoo I failed one of my students went bad so I give up..... He used a force projection to face kylo and this killed him? really? I want to get rid of the jedi (well yeah after the dogma I would too damn prequels).
2. Porgs omg don't get me started on those awful rats. they had no point in movie but to make a merchandise statement for very young kids (worthless!).
3. This movie would have been better for the end of the series just makes no sense doing it now had no flow no character development just was disappointing.

Ok don't get me wrong I put a lot of bad statements in here but I didn't hate the movie was just very disappointed in it. This is what happens when you hire people who want to tell their own stories rather than expand and the originals and I cant stand that if your going to do sequels you need to keep somewhat similar to the story and further character development of the originals. I don't mean the old characters live forever but give them dignity in their ends for god sake. You can go in a new direction but damn do it with real story telling not this crap we have been seeing.
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Re: The Last Jedi (Spoiler Discussion)

Postby YAK_Chewie » Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:25 pm

I agree, a lot of this doesn't feel like storytelling now that we have 2 films in the new trilogy. It's let's make a lot of big explosions and throw in some new force powers, use some familiar designs to throw a bone at the old school fans, and kill off the beloved main trio of characters, while hanging onto characters like Chewbacca, R2 and 3PO but just make them background characters.

Are these horrible? No. But if not for the original cast and keeping some familiar elements, this trilogy would seriously be lacking.

This is the first time out of everything since TPM that I haven't rush back to the theatre to see it. I don't know when I will see it again. I am in no rush and I actually think the Han Solo movie might be better than this one.

:|
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Re: The Last Jedi (Spoiler Discussion)

Postby darthvlad » Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:56 pm

YAK_Chewie wrote:I actually think the Han Solo movie might be better than this one.


I have no hopes for Solo. It might just be a Guardians of the Galaxy rip off with the way things are going. I might skip Solo altogether but if you're right about it being better than TLJ, that's probably not saying much.

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