Discussion about anything related to the post-Lucas movie releases.

Moderators: MistaBinks, Yakface.com Staff

By jlw515
#161837
Crap! Utinniii's comment about gravity bombs in TESB really makes "sense" in explaining the bombs in TLJ. You also made a valid point about Snoke's origin, but that really wasn't a big issue to me.

My cousin and I have talked at length about the "turtle space race," and the explanation of the Resistance ship being "out of range" for TIEs to be sent out and stuff. I commented, the idea that the Resistance ship is faster IN SPACE just doesn't make sense scientifically, to which my cousin pointed out that there is A LOT about Star Wars that doesn't make sense in the real world of science!

I guess my biggest issue is that I think Finn's character and story in the film was just redundant. There may have been some political jabs being made in the whole freeing of the race horse-type animals, that I felt was unnecessary. Basically, you can take Finn out of this movie, and every thing that occurred on the Casino planet and still have the same movie.

Gonna watch it again before the end of the year. It may be like it was with me when I saw Dr. Strange. I hated it the first time because nothing really made sense. However after watching it again, I really liked it and thought it was a great story.

Jason
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By Utinniii
#161839
Thanks!

I think it is possible to project our feelings a lot into this movie. If we liked it, we make positive rationals about why events happened (Snoke witing to blow up fleet, gravity bombs...) and if we didn't like it the same events become plot holes or bad films.

I'd just like to say that even while people disagree here everyone is still being respectful and polite to each other, unlike some other places on the net. I really appreciate it.
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By StooperZero
#161850
Watched it today.

My only major complaint- too long . Too much content jammed into one seating session.

Gripes=
Killing Ackbar
The whole chasing down the fleet that's running out of fuel and they take off in the smaller transports until jurassic parks' suicide pilot saves the day was way too drawn out .


It was OK, i'm not gonna knitpick it to death.
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By YAK_Chewie
#161861
Saw it for a second time today, and I will admit that it was better the second time.

My biggest gripes now:

- the hologram sequence with Maz Kanata
- the head being pulled off the AT-ST that BB-8 is in
- the Canto Bight security getting subdued by BB-8

Take that stuff out, and it's a much better film in my opinion. There are some flaws in it for sure - some which really could have been changed to strenghthen the film.

Seeing Leia's "space walk" bothers me less now - you can see in the movie she braces herself for the blast that blows up the command center - in my world, she created a Force bubble to protect herself.

I love the whole sequence especially once they get on Crait. Though I wish they had used better camera work to really show off the might and size of the new walkers.

I wonder how they are going to play off Carrie Fisher's passing in the next film... I think they had quite a bit of unused footage from TFA, so I would expect that JJ Abrams finds a way to utilize it.

:wink:
By heybert17
#161863
After 2 viewing I still am at about a 5/10 with the movie. I can appreciate it as a Sci-Fi movie but It just doesn't feel like a Star Wars movie to me. It isn't so much the story itself. The only plot points I really didn't like was the death of Luke, didn't want that and the canto Bight scene just felt plugged in and not very well thought out. I was okay with the reveal of Rey's parents and hope that is the real story, it expands the Jedi beyond the Skywalker family. I liked the continuation of Kylo as the villain and with the rest of the family gone now I do not want redemption, let him go down as a irredeemable villain. There has just been a certain feeling I had after seeing the rest of the films, even TFA which I initially liked but has diminished some in my opinion. But I did not have that feeling at the end of this movie, and while my disappointment was lessened a bit in the 2nd viewing I still did not get that "Star Wars" feeling I wanted.
#161865
I also saw this for a second time last night. A friend asked me what I thought about the film - I told him I can describe it in one word, "tease". That is exactly how I feel about it as it starts to go down many unique and interesting paths, but then reverses or "chickens" out. This is a film that I think a lot of people will love or hate. I am in the middle but leaning more towards hate I guess.

*SPOILERS*

First of all, almost all the jokes were too heavy handed and ended up being terrible. Especially that beginning scene with Hux and Poe. Ugh. There has always been humor in Star Wars and I always liked it in Star Wars, but (at least when it was best executed) it was more subtle or at least tonally fit with the scene.

My first viewing I absolutely hated what they did with Luke. I thought along the same lines as Mark Hamill does about his character. After seeing it again though, I thought it was a missed opportunity and I would have handled his reasons for being on Ach-to a little differently. Rather than being completely broken down - which I still say does not fit his character at all - it should have been along the lines of seeing hope in Rey. He would want to see the knowledge of the force being passed down in some way and then be disappointed when she leaves to face Kylo because she was not ready - much in the same vein as what happened to him. However, in my second viewing my main gripe is that it was a completely missed opportunity to make something completely different. I like the fact he acknowledges that the Jedi failed and how he hints that none of the organizations matter, there is only the force. But at the end of the day ends up going nowhere.

The Ben/Rey team up was the best part of the film. I have no problem with how they handled Snoke. I thought he was as bad of a decision as Starkiller base. No need to have a big baddie like him (same with Phasma - both are unnecessary). The movie was SO close to doing something really cool. We almost had a team up of Rey and Kylo doing their own thing and could have really opened up the next film to something completely new and interesting. But no, it turns into a complete rehash of Empire. Massive disappointment both times.

I did like how Rey is basically a nobody. She is not tied to any established characters or another chosen one. She is just someone who was born force sensitive and is able to carve her own path and make her own destiny. Awesome. That was exactly what I was hoping would happen so at least we got that! I REALLY hope JJ does not retcon that and spin it like "Kylo was just telling you that to turn you to the dark side. Your father was actually Ezra!!!!" or something stupid like that. Let her be free!

There were way to many subplots and useless story lines. The tone was all over the place and the film had no grounding at all. They should have scrapped the whole Casino planet subplot - that was completely worthless and went absolutely no where. It should have been focused on Rey/Luke, Kylo and the Resistance escape with the main focus on Rey and Kylo - those were the best scenes by far.

I liked Crait...but I felt like that should have been in episode 9. I felt like Finn should have gotten the hero's death. That was unexpected yet it would have given his story a nice conclusion - stormtrooper leaves the First Order because he is afraid of what is has become and what they will do to him, to a hero willing to take a stand and sacrifice himself for the greater good. Then Rose completely ruins the moment and basically says "Love will save us all" as the mini-death star is blowing up the rebel door to the base. What????? I literally laughed out loud in the theater both times I saw that scene.

I also did not have a problem with the final Luke scene. I actually thought that was handled very well and I enjoyed it even more the second time. In fact, the final scene was very touching and I think it was handled with a lot of dignity (unlike Han Solo). I just wished it could have been saved for the last film.

There were a lot of other silly and nonsensical things that happened: using light speed as a weapon!? (Why did no one else do this in the past??? Rogue One? Return of the Jedi? This tactic would have been very valuable then!) Leia's "space flight", Maz's completely WORTHLESS cameo, etc.

I guess I just wished that this film did what I think it was trying to do - take Star Wars in a completely different direction. I was really hoping that what Disney was going to do when they announced the sequel trilogy because otherwise, the the new films are going to be unnecessary and just a rehash. Instead what we got was a film where at the end of the day, nothing happens except a bunch of people die. I have no idea where they are going to take episode 9 now, but it is not in an optimistic and hopeful way anymore. It's a very similar feeling I had after AOC - "I just hope the last one can be good and do the saga justice" This movie made me appreciate episode 7 a lot more. Yes it was a total rehash and I still have major problems with it but it was grounded and focused for the most part. Rogue One, while I wish did not have so many main characters, took Star Wars in a semi-different direction as a "War Movie" yet did the original trilogy justice. In my opinion, Rogue One is still the best movie of the Disney era by far.

Overall I would give it a solid "C" grade. A lot of awesome potential and we got really close to interesting, uncharted territory - which is what I think Star Wars needed desperately. But at the end, same old, same old.
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By Utinniii
#161866
That they weaponized lightspeed doesn't bother me nearly so much as that Hodor managed to take out the ENTIRE fleet. Even supposing she did several microjumps, I doubt the hyperdrive would have lasted beyond the second jump.

This is how I see it, this was a unique situation that was exploited and steps would be taken so it could never be repeated. Since the Rebel ships were out of range, the shields were down. Had the shields be up (like they would be in any battle) it wouldn't have worked.

Let's look at the "Science facts" of hyperdrive.
1] We've known since ANH that hyperspace travel dangerous and calculating the route is super important (it ain't like dusting crops).
2] A nav computer is need to plot the course. IDR if hyperpace lanes were ever mentioned in the movies, but we know they exist. The computer prevents ships from landing on each other.
3] Gravity pulls things out of it (Gravity well SDs). This stops ships from crashing into planets or Death Stars.

4] (Not about the hyperdrive) In a battle, one of the first things they say is "Shields up). Ships don't typically fly with their shields up all the time. Shields are also directed all the time (front/back). The implication of this is that using shields either costs energy or fuel, otherwise it would be used all the time.

This all ties together for once in a lifetime chance. Hux decided to run them down instead of jumping into range. This isn't a bad plan since they save on resources (no battle damage) and the rebels have nowhere to run. He's tiring out the fish on the hook. Since the ships are out of range, there is no need for energy draining shields. Their prey is fleeing so there is no thought of attack.

This scene could have been fixed with the simple line of "What is she doi... Quick, turn on the shields to maximu-" kablooie! (I made that longs since "Shields up" would have saved them.)

This scene was forshadowed twice in the movie. Once when Ren destroyed all the unshielded ships in the hanger and 2] when one TIE crashed through most of the bombers. Clever storytelling actually.

It still doesn't explain why all the SD's were destroyed though (except they couldn't be there for planetary bombardment later on.). It would have been better if Hux has sent them away (send them ahead in case they hyperjumped, or attack known rebel sympathizers). But it does explain why Laura Dern's characters last words were "HOLD THE DOOR!! HOLDO!!!"
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By Imaculata
#161869
I finally get to share my feelings on this film, and read your collective thoughts. I had to avoid spoilers for a whole week after release, because I wanted to go see it with my closest friends.

This movie has me a bit divided. I think overall I like it. But it felt long (which it was), and there were some things that didn't work for me.

The good:

The opening battle
So many female pilots!
The humor
The way the force is portrayed
Rey's journey into the hole
The amazing battle with Rey and Kylo versus the guards
The fight of the Falcon in the salt mine
The music! Especially the return of the tie fighter theme.
All the unexpected turns and twists
The finale on krait
The new vehicle designs
Rose and Finn
Poe
Kylo Ren in general
Mark Hamill

The bad:

The space chase and casino scenes felt unnecessary
Yoda looked really fake
Daisy Ridley's acting during the first 15 mins is very flat (I also blame this on the director)
The Maz Kanada hologram scene
Laura Dern (didn't like any of her scenes)
The constant cutting back to the space race, with no real plot progression
No actual fight with the walkers?
No Knights of Ren?

This movie had problems with pacing, the story, editing and the delivery of jokes. It was really hit or miss. I needed some time to let it all sink in, and decide how I feel about this, compared to TFA. I think I can applaud The Last Jedi for having lots of twists and taking some risks, where as TFA was very safe and by the numbers. But on the other hand, TFA felt like a more cohesive movie to me. So in the end, I think I'll rate this about a 6. I don't regret seeing it, I had a good time, but it has a lot of problems.

As a side note, I do not understand why so many people seem to be giving Rogue One so much praise. That movie was quite a mess, in my opinion. Not to take away from anyone's enjoyment of it of course. But it makes me wonder if I'm along in noticing the complete lack of characters and heart in that film. It just completely failed to draw me in, where as at least with Last Jedi I was curious to see where it would go next.
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By Utinniii
#161873
With further discussion, she only took out Snoke but many of the SD's were damaged by debris.
The scene reminded me of the Starkiller blast branching off and killing multiple targets.
#161874
I saw it for the second time today - in IMAX 3D. Not much of an improvement. The plot is dumb. The whole Monte Carlo part is useless. I still can't get over Leia as Mary Poppins in space. The darn jokes are not funny!! Just unreal.
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By Imaculata
#161875
My biggest issue with The Last Jedi, is the editing. The movie often had bad timing of scenes, and sudden unmotivated scene transitions. I recently watched this interesting video regarding the editing of the original Star Wars. When George Lucas screened Star Wars to his close circle of directors for the first time, they hated it. It was an incoherent mess, but was eventually saved in the edit.

With the Last Jedi I noticed how it constantly cut back to Hux and the chase between the First Order and the Rebel ship, without there actually being a motivation to cut back to it. Nothing had changed, there was no plot progression, and yet we cut back to it several times. The Last Jedi also constantly cuts back to Rey training with Luke. And although Rey's adventures on the island are by far the most interesting part of the movie, it feels like these two parts of the movie do not connect with one another.

Then there's the timing of certain scenes. When I watched Thor Ragnarok earlier this year, I noticed how good the comedic timing was.

A scene such as "Get help" deliberately has tight editing, with the camera stationary on the actors, and the dialogue sped up in order to eventually cut to the punch line. First Thor and Loki have a sincere heart to heart, to set up a serious tone. Then Thor suddenly says "Lets do: Get help", Loki protests, Thor insists, Loki protests some more - CUT to them doing "Get help" anyway. Perfect timing, and great editing.

I noticed in The Last Jedi how abrupt some scenes would change. One great example is Finn's fight with Phasma, followed by BB8's rescue by operating an AT-ST, then them all escaping on said AT-ST, and then abruptly being on a shuttle on their way down the planet. They skip the landing and immediately cut to the Canto Bight cops spotting their shuttle on the beach, and then immediately cut to them entering the casino, followed by a fast paced zoom through the casino. The pacing is all over the place. No scene is allowed to settle. And I especially found the AT-ST escape followed by the shuttle escape very jarring.

A similar problem occurred when Finn tries to escape the rebel ship and is discovered by Rose. She stuns him very suddenly, which then would be a perfect moment to end the scene and cut to something else. Yet they cut to Finn again being carried off. So sometimes it feels like a scene is over, but then it goes on and on.

This editing problem with the timing of scenes also translates to the timing of some of the jokes. The entire dialogue scene between Hux and Poe Dameron at the start of the movie, fell flat to me. There were a few awkward giggles in the audience, from people understanding that this was supposed to be a funny scene, and trying desperately to get a laugh started. But I feel its killed by poor editing and timing. Some other jokes (such as Chewy eating the Porg) did work, but the humor is very hit or miss. And I think this is partially to the way the way the scene is set up. When Poe talks to Hux, we're in the middle of a tense scene where Poe is trying to stop the First Order destroyer. And so the humor here feels out of place. It is not the right moment to crack a joke.

Then there's also the scene where BB-9E spots Finn, Rose and BB8. It felt like there was going to be (or should be) some sort of a confrontation between the two BB8-units, which ultimately has no pay off, and they are all just captured rather suddenly.

And that wasn't the only scene without a pay off... When Rey ventures into the dark hole, and has the surreal scene with all her reflections, the scene ultimately doesn't go anywhere. I guess this is supposed to be another twist, as if the director is constantly trying to defy the expectations of the audience. But some scenes need a pay off. When you have Rey ask who her parents are, something needs to happen. Either we get a shocking reveal, or she learns a valuable lesson (as Luke did on Dagobah when failing Yoda's test). But you can't just have the scene end, with no pay off, and no answers. That ultimately means her entire journey into the hole was pointless. And a lot of scenes in The Last Jedi are like that. What was the point of the entire casino planet, other than an excuse to have Finn and Rose get captured?
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